Water Transition from Shallow to Deep

Got a great idea or a proposal for us? Post it here and discuss it with others!
Post Reply
User avatar
Till
Staff
Posts: 3563
Joined: April 19, 2007, 06:54:42 PM
Character: Till
Location: Germany

July 24, 2008, 12:35:20 AM

I believe there already have been discussions about it, unfortunately the results of those discussions (if they are discussed in the staff boards, what we sadly often don't know) usually don't become public.

So I just post this suggestion here, to see the community's and staff's reaction on it.

Ever watched a flowing river? I mean attentively, not with your head in the clouds, staring holes in the air. Watching the sand on the ground the fishes swimming in it and the numerous reflections of the sun on the water surface?

Well, to be honest, I guess it's quite unlikely to get sprites with light reflection as it would look stupid at night however it would be cool to have some sort of realism in there.

Small amounts of clean water are transparent as you probably know. We can be sure of the fact that the Erasian water is clean unless Myth Entertainment decides to add chemical industry to their medieval game world.
At the shore or bank the water usually is shallow, shallow enough to see the ground, sometimes even the whole river is so flat that you can see the ground everywhere. Of course the things you see underwater look a bit blueish and blurred, but you still can identify most things as stones, fishes, twigs, sands, shells, boots, pebbles, whatever these were just a few examples.

Now, wouldn't it be cool to have transparent water in Phobos? Shallow water, walkable (fords) or not, could be transparent, with a blueish touch to everything "underwater". Now as the water gets deeper the things you see get darker, more blurred until your eyes have to be content with just seeing the surface (mostly in the middle of the river).
The cool thing of this change in the water sprites is that fords (passages where the water is so flat that you can cross it there). could be made much more distinguishable from normal water, furthermore it's a nice feature and make something better than just blue of water.

The difference to the current system would be that we need 7 (or 9 if you want a smoother transitioning) sprites for water now. The following example goes for 7 sprites. The more near the number gets to the 4 the deeper the water gets, meaning sprites with the numbers 1 and 7 are very shallow, sprites given the numbers 3 or 5 still are sort of transparent but very deep already, number 4 is just blue.

If you are wondering what the difference between the number 2 and 6 is, or between 3 and 5... in number 3 the transition from shallow to deep goes from left to right. Number 5 has the transition from right to left ;)

Ok, here's the example pic.
Image
Nero
Tester
Posts: 559
Joined: August 18, 2007, 11:54:54 AM
Character: Nero
Clan: Brotherhood Ruthless
Location: Fortaleza, CE - Brazil
Contact:

July 24, 2008, 01:27:05 AM

this exists in age of empires :P
Salih
Tester
Posts: 69
Joined: August 16, 2007, 06:03:15 PM
Character: Salih
Clan: Dwarfhood
Location: Poland

July 24, 2008, 06:54:27 AM

I've got a question:
What if a player or monster die in the shallow water? His body will "lay" on the water or maybe disappear?
Will you be able to "use" it or not?Of course consider this to any object you can throw or put.
K-Seppi
Tester
Posts: 2159
Joined: April 14, 2007, 07:21:32 PM
Clan: Order of the Beetle

July 24, 2008, 08:08:20 AM

Sounds pretty interesting... you wouldn't need more sprites though. All you gotta do is mix the current water tile with a black surface and a certain % of alpha transparency, making the whole texture darker.
Haggish
Traveller
Posts: 104
Joined: July 14, 2008, 12:05:00 PM
Clan: Akai'zhar

July 24, 2008, 08:34:22 AM

K-Seppi wrote:Sounds pretty interesting... you wouldn't need more sprites though. All you gotta do is mix the current water tile with a black surface and a certain % of alpha transparency, making the whole texture darker.
Does Phobos use Halftransparency? Otherwise it would look kind of odd (just like odl tibias shadows when launched on low performance machine. The dotty stuff all arround.).
Celix
Tester
Posts: 911
Joined: March 31, 2006, 04:33:47 PM
Character: Celix
Clan: Order of the Beetle
Location: Sweden

July 24, 2008, 10:52:21 AM

Nero wrote:this exists in age of empires :P
LOL, exactly what I thought xD
I'd love to have fords in Phobos :)
User avatar
Till
Staff
Posts: 3563
Joined: April 19, 2007, 06:54:42 PM
Character: Till
Location: Germany

July 24, 2008, 12:08:11 PM

Yeah, AoE has got that ford thing, but no water transition either.
And yes, Seppi, you are right, you indeed need more sprites than 7 as these would only cover the sprites needed for a river going from South to North or vice versa, not for a river flowing from East to West though. So we would need 13 sprites. We'd probably need even more for curves etc.

@Salih: That is a good question. I thought that a player walking through that shallow water would get his feet wet, meaning the feet would get sort of blueish so it looks as if he was walking on the ground and not on the water surface as it usually would look like. However that surely would be some hard coding doing it for every graphic ingame.


I also thought that this "system" could influence fishing as fishes or at least big ones are considered swimming in the deeper areas of a river, while small fishes do so, too, but are more likely to appear in the shallow areas, too.

Btw, I can tell from personal experience that moving water (rivers) needs to be about 1,3 meters deep to have lost all of it's transparency. However at oceans you'll be able to see the ground even if the water is 2 meters deep. I don't know how it's for lakes, though :o
K-Seppi
Tester
Posts: 2159
Joined: April 14, 2007, 07:21:32 PM
Clan: Order of the Beetle

July 24, 2008, 12:09:38 PM

K-Seppi wrote:Sounds pretty interesting... you wouldn't need more sprites though. All you gotta do is mix the current water tile with a black surface and a certain % of alpha transparency, making the whole texture darker.
Phineas, I never said it requires more sprites, but no additional sprites at all if alpha transparency is used.
User avatar
Till
Staff
Posts: 3563
Joined: April 19, 2007, 06:54:42 PM
Character: Till
Location: Germany

July 24, 2008, 12:12:14 PM

Oh sorry, I probably just didn't see n't behind the would ^^" I sort of just skimmed the post.
User avatar
Till
Staff
Posts: 3563
Joined: April 19, 2007, 06:54:42 PM
Character: Till
Location: Germany

July 27, 2008, 11:11:12 AM

Ok, just informed myself about Alpha blending or Alpha transparency as you call it, because I didn't know what it was. So you basically mean to put a water-tile with a low α-value on top of a normal ground tile. To simulate a change in the water deepness you just rise or reduce the α-value of the water-tile, right?

That would mean that the ground of the river is equal to some normal ground you are able to find anywhere else in the world, which at least in real life can't be the case, as there are no shells, small plants and pebbles on the "overwater"-ground.
I hope you get what I mean.
K-Seppi
Tester
Posts: 2159
Joined: April 14, 2007, 07:21:32 PM
Clan: Order of the Beetle

July 27, 2008, 12:20:44 PM

I didn't talk about what's underwater but about how to easily darken water without needing additional sprites - using a black surface and alpha transparency.

I did get however what you meant in your post, which is a really good point. Realising that might be a bit complicated though and could slow down older machines. To do that, few steps are needed. First, you need to do what I mentioned at the beginning of my post in order to receive the correct darkened water tile. Then again, you need an additional tile which contains the underwater details on it. Done that, you put the darkened water tile on the underwater tile with a certain alpha value to finish it. That's the final surface now which needs to be drawn.
User avatar
Till
Staff
Posts: 3563
Joined: April 19, 2007, 06:54:42 PM
Character: Till
Location: Germany

July 28, 2008, 10:01:26 PM

Just one argument more for this proposal:

This system could give each river some more uniqueness as you would be able to add sand banks and stuff...
User avatar
Till
Staff
Posts: 3563
Joined: April 19, 2007, 06:54:42 PM
Character: Till
Location: Germany

October 29, 2008, 04:51:17 PM

Sorry for the bump, but... anyone still up for this one?
Post Reply