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 Items with random properties 
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Joined: May 26, 2013, 07:19:30 AM
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Post Items with random properties
Hi there,

This idea might look scary and confusing at first but for those who are familiar with this system will probably understand the PROs of implementing something like this. This is not meant to be a straight ripoff of Diablo series or any other game with similar system, instead it is just a suggestion that given proper polishing might result in great gameplay depth.

-

The idea:

Imagine the following item:

A boots which increases the wearer movement speed by 10 levels. This pair of boots weighs 10 oz.

This is the base item. The player should be happy enough to loot an item like that, but imagine that the player was lucky enough to "proc" extra properties whenever this item dropped. And now instead this is new version of said item:

A boots which increases the wearer movement speed by 13 levels. This pair of boots weighs 6.4 oz. This item can not be dropped on death.

Voa-la! As you can see this item had 3 modifications:
*It is extra-light. It weighs 36% less;
*Given this is a boots, it rolled a +movement speed property (+3) that added to the +10 of the base item;
*This is now "immune" to being dropped on the wearers' death.

Lets see what happened behing the scenes, in the game's logic.
*The item rolled 3 out of (1-4) extra random property;
*The extra-light property rolled 36 out of (25-50) -%;
*The extra movement speed rolled 3 out of (2-6);
*The reduced chance to drop item on death rolled perfectly! 100 out of (50-100);

Values being generically random, for exemplification purposes only;

As you can see, there will be a maximum limit of random properties and each property has a range of its own. So basically each item will end being unique. Finding an item with the maxium limit of random properties, these properties being good ones and each property giving its bonuses close to its maxium range value: Priceless!

For logical purposes, some random properties might only be rolled in certain equipment slots. Afterall there is little logic behind a helmet piece increasing movement speed? - Personal opnion;


In case you still didn't understand what is great about a system like this, I'll try pointing out some PROs;
*More variety of items without actually having to make sprites/lore/how-to-obtain and all of that for every new piece of gear;
*This make the character development road a little more exiciting, there will be "always" something to upgrade;
*It is exciting! Imagine looting a rare sword that is already godly by its base stats and it happens to roll extra properties!;
*Better player-to-player economy. This create new a new market for items, some people might want to stack +movement speed on their equipments meanwhile others prefer some +extra HP.

I left the last PRO being the P2P economy on purpose. On Tibia (a game which is now by good portion of this forumbase) the economy was horrible after the game's mid-age.
Some people stockpiled the "high-end" equipments only to straight sell those to the NPC. It wasn't even worthwhile to announce said items on the trade chat because since every item was exactly equal to its similar, there was no need to ever change your gear after a certain point. I bet that if someone looted a Boots of Haste that gave more movement speed than its base counterpart people would be willing to pay extra money just so they could enjoy its extra perks.

Since not everything is flowers, here are some arguable CONs:
*Time consuming to implement, even more considering that the game is not even live;
*DATA storage would be more complex since each item would end being unique;
*Some average items might end being better than comparable better quality items;

Again, I left this last CON on the last position on purpose. Meanwhile some might argue that it is weird for a Level 30 weapon being better than a Level 40 weapon I honestly don't see it that way;
First, these random properties should be rare. The base stats on each item should still matter a lot but I -person opnion- would be fine seeing a Level 30 Weapon with some good random properties being better than a Level 40 Weapon with no or with some bad random properties. We are talking about RNG here, given proper tuning RNG can be the heart of any game. If a player hit the 1:1000000 chance of looting a godly Level 30 Weapon, so be it.

The other two CONs might be only bad depending on how the game is being developed. I might have been mistaken and who knows afterall that a feature like this can be implemented with ease.

To finish the post, I will just throw out some random properties that I just had thoughts of/based of existing ones from other games/some that could be applied to a MMORPG like Phobos:

*Reduced chance to drop the item on death;
*Increased sell price to NPCs;
*Extra light;
*Reduced level requirement;
*Extra Health;
*Chance of doing extra damage on hit (weapons only?);
*Light radius;
*Extra gold find/item find chance;
*Extra damange to players;
*Extra chance to dodge/be missed;
*HP/Mana regeneration;
*Food/potion/flask duration/effects increased;
*Reduced damage taken by certain elements;
*Chance of snaring/rooting/knockback/general crowd control on hit;
*Open Sockets (in case of a Jewelcraft profession/gems existing);
*Stats/skills increase;
*Reduced costs on all/specific abilities;
*Reduced Global Cooldown/Exhausted time;
*Chance of reflecting projectile spells (shields only?);
*Extra armor/defense;
*Reduced CD in all/specific abilities / faster melee swinging;
//As you can see, the list is endless, creativity/coding is the limit.

Thanks for your time!


May 26, 2013, 08:14:25 AM
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Post Re: Items with random properties
Some properties sound as they are taken from Diablo^^. These random buffs could be granted by monks trained in certain type of enhancements. I agree on the randomness of the buff(its value) but it might not be permanent. Overall not a bad idea.


May 26, 2013, 11:32:06 AM
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Post Re: Items with random properties
I think this kind of idea is already in game, could be wrong though. It has also been discussed before. I will try and find the topic.

http://forum.phobosonline.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5702


May 26, 2013, 01:10:14 PM
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Post Re: Items with random properties
First of all, claps to your post formatting, it is amazing and beautiful. Really rare to see.

Well, your idea has seduced me like a mermaid seduces it's prisioners, it would bring an extra level of excitement and would really increasr the economy: IT IS GREAT!

But I ask, if you've considered RANDOM properties, why not have a small chance that it end with worse properties? I mean, for your example, it end up being faster, but heavier? And then yes, your argue of "someone would prefer stat x than y", would be very well in use.

But yes, your idea is good and the crew should take a glance at this...

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May 26, 2013, 04:58:15 PM
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Post Re: Items with random properties
@Bacjusz
The source of those properties do not have to be from looting itself. It can be item enchants, some character profession or even something that happens after a quest.

I just suggested looting because basic monster grinding is usually possible to do solo. I've played World of Warcraft to very high-end and that game is simply unplayable solo after a certain point, it requires you to be grouped with many people in order to do the smallest upgrade in your gear. In my opnion that was bad because there were many days that I could log in and the only thing I could do was either help others, level an alternative character or... chat or wait until everyone was online so we could group up.

@Agent Green
That thread totally goes other way. He suggest the implementation of unique items that go more towards lore from what I understood. Which by itself is a great addition to any game.


@Autran
If anything Diablo 3 devs learned from their RNG loot system is that you can not make random properties play 95% of the item stats: the base stats also have to matter, otherwise it causes more frustration than excitement.

Also, about items rolling "bad" properties as you suggested, this can be seen as if an item roll no properties at all, roll "useless" properties like increased light radius or roll "low end" on their property range... for example "+1 Movement speed".


May 26, 2013, 06:46:29 PM
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Post Re: Items with random properties
Pestitschek wrote:
@Autran
If anything Diablo 3 devs learned from their RNG loot system is that you can not make random properties play 95% of the item stats: the base stats also have to matter, otherwise it causes more frustration than excitement.

Also, about items rolling "bad" properties as you suggested, this can be seen as if an item roll no properties at all, roll "useless" properties like increased light radius or roll "low end" on their property range... for example "+1 Movement speed".


What? :no: You confused the posts... Btw, if we consider enchanting and not looting for those modified stats, rolling it bad would be a consequence too, cause the item would have it's normal state, right? Then something would happen to it, right? Well, it got heavier, but magically makes you faster. Or, idk, it got lighter and faster, but seems slippery from your feet (higher chances of dropping on death). Something like that...

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May 26, 2013, 07:02:16 PM
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Post Re: Items with random properties
@Autran
You got the idea. Also only the 2nd paragraph was towards your post. "Bad" properties items can be items that didn't roll any extra property*, items that rolled useless properties (useless being subjetive) or that rolled "low end" bonuses on their range (as previous example. The +1 Movement speed, something that is barely noticiable).

*Good to point out that it is extremely up to devs and their final tuning. They might like the idea and make random properties very frequent... or they can like it being rare-ish.


I only suggested the implementation of this system. What are going to be the sources of these random properties (profession, looting, questing) is again entirely up to the devs. There can be multiple sources! Maybe looting random properties being more random-ish and quests giving more specific item enchants that you know exactly what is going to happen to your item?
Maybe profession adding straight bonuses to your gear (and then the player with said profession can play a huge role in economy since hes very allowed to do the same to other's equipment)?

Options are endless, this can be anything from very simple yet-existing up to something that will basically be around in most aspects of the game.


May 26, 2013, 07:38:06 PM
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Post Re: Items with random properties
I understand what you say of "useless" extras... Anyway... The crew should really take a look at this, which isn't hard at all to implement...

As I've said in the other topic as well, i love the idea of having unique items, cause i'm probaly one of the most encouragers of heating the market system... Maybe because i study economics, or because i love the proximity to real life or maybe because i love people interactions, but what matter is that having high amount of different items could make you want to search in the whole world for a item that match you. And your idea adds to it.

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May 26, 2013, 07:55:55 PM
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Post Re: Items with random properties
I'm playing a ot with this system. works well
however has to be very well done.

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May 26, 2013, 09:15:26 PM
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Post Re: Items with random properties
I think it would add depth into the game, and certainly affect the market in a positive way. It also adds some excitement in the game because you can loot/enchant an item that will be somehow different from other items.

I like your idea and think it could very well be implemented into the game!


May 26, 2013, 09:42:56 PM
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