• Cave Trolls Adjustment

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Lans
Tester
Posts: 40
Joined: June 18, 2013, 07:55:22 AM
Character: Lans

March 08, 2017, 06:32:41 PM

After the buff Cave Trolls received in some previous patches, I realized that they are almost impossible to profit, takes an insanely long time to kill one and are a complete waste of money. :o

I believe the loot drop is fine, the thing is, they take forever to kill, at level 44(3?) they already start giving less exp.
They also hit hard, you can expect at least 30 damage from them which makes you chug even more potions.

So here are some ideas to help us, players and to make Trolls huntable again.

* Decrease HP :king:
- Currently, Wiki says they have 1500 HP, that`s 600 hp higher than Predator.
(For the same exp, it`s a lot)

* Lower Armor :axe:
- Trolls run around naked, I bet they have a hard skin but still, you never really hit high enough to kill them fast.
By lowering their Armor/Defense we would be able to hit higher numbers, killing them faster.

* Raise the value of Troll drops :moustache:
- You always loot an axe worth 40cc, a sword worth 90cc and after hours of hunt you realize that you wasted 20k and didnt even make 100k exp, even after looting 5+ backpacks of items.

The nerf of Steel Gauntlets (25k -> 3.5k?) was insane, it`s the best gloves around and you never profit when you loot one.
Making items somewhat a little more valuable would help you buy potions again, get more skills, hunt more and so on.

# Even with new skills (please Rob, not that excuse) Trolls would still take a long time to get killed.
More Skills -> more pots -> more cost -> more kills -> 0 loot -> waste
Specially on high levels where there`s really no where to hunt and make money.
You don`t benefit hunting Trolls even when you team hunt. (That might actually make you waste even more!)

Any ideas people?
Should Trolls be adjusted again?
Help me here, I want to hunt them but right now they are impossible.
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Chaosweaver
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Posts: 504
Joined: August 10, 2010, 02:16:13 PM
Location: Norway

March 08, 2017, 10:07:30 PM

I don't know how trolls are now, but the only thing that made them profitable in the past was the steel gauntlets for 28k. There is a lot of balancing needed across the classes as well. Range classes has it waaaay worse, especially mages (potion spam and waste reaches extreme levels).
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Rob
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Posts: 3604
Joined: March 30, 2006, 08:22:14 PM
Location: UK

March 09, 2017, 04:20:22 PM

As ever, thanks for the feedback.

I should first mention that the cave troll actually only has 1200 HP. However it does have a very weak healing effect which probably gave it the appearance of having much higher HP. This healing effect will be removed in the next update.

On average, a cave troll will drop loot worth a little over 230 cc. Of course, that does rely on certain high-price drops, but since the last loot update, you're not just waiting around for a pair of steel gauntlets to make your hunt profitable. With the high HP of cave trolls, that 230 cc is probably a little low, but isn't far off.

To me, the problem here is more the extreme tankiness of the cave troll and the predictability of their attacks. Their magic defence is already very low, but I will reduce their physical defence/dodge chance.

Since you've already called out my usual excuse of lack of player abilities... let me suggest a different (but related) one: lack of creature abilities (!). As several players have mentioned before, many monsters do quite predictable damage. This is especially true of melee monsters like the cave troll and the giant. I'll add a few new attacks for them as part of the next update which should help. This will also allow me to reduce the tankiness of these monsters further and make fights more interesting.

With that in mind, please do mention any other monsters which are problematic and I'll take a look at how they can be adjusted as well.
Lans
Tester
Posts: 40
Joined: June 18, 2013, 07:55:22 AM
Character: Lans

March 09, 2017, 04:35:48 PM

Rob wrote:As ever, thanks for the feedback.

I should first mention that the cave troll actually only has 1200 HP. However it does have a very weak healing effect which probably gave it the appearance of having much higher HP. This healing effect will be removed in the next update.

On average, a cave troll will drop loot worth a little over 230 cc. Of course, that does rely on certain high-price drops, but since the last loot update, you're not just waiting around for a pair of steel gauntlets to make your hunt profitable. With the high HP of cave trolls, that 230 cc is probably a little low, but isn't far off.

To me, the problem here is more the extreme tankiness of the cave troll and the predictability of their attacks. Their magic defence is already very low, but I will reduce their physical defence/dodge chance.

Since you've already called out my usual excuse of lack of player abilities... let me suggest a different (but related) one: lack of creature abilities (!). As several players have mentioned before, many monsters do quite predictable damage. This is especially true of melee monsters like the cave troll and the giant. I'll add a few new attacks for them as part of the next update which should help. This will also allow me to reduce the tankiness of these monsters further and make fights more interesting.

With that in mind, please do mention any other monsters which are problematic and I'll take a look at how they can be adjusted as well.
Funny that you mentioned that, I was talking to Chaosweaver about monsters having some very strong abilities/skills but before they cast it, they do some kind of shout out (turn red, growl, yell, stuff like that) indicating that he will use a very strong skill, and as a reaction, you could cast deflect (magic shield, heal up, things like that) that would partially block the skill)
That would probably make the battles more dynamic and skill required.

I can`t really think of many creatures that we don`t hunt.
We could use some more giants, that would help players team hunt, look for rares and make level 50 characters usable again.
Dizenzo
Tester
Posts: 21
Joined: May 19, 2013, 01:03:06 AM

March 11, 2017, 12:43:09 AM

Lans wrote:
Rob wrote:As ever, thanks for the feedback.

I should first mention that the cave troll actually only has 1200 HP. However it does have a very weak healing effect which probably gave it the appearance of having much higher HP. This healing effect will be removed in the next update.

On average, a cave troll will drop loot worth a little over 230 cc. Of course, that does rely on certain high-price drops, but since the last loot update, you're not just waiting around for a pair of steel gauntlets to make your hunt profitable. With the high HP of cave trolls, that 230 cc is probably a little low, but isn't far off.

To me, the problem here is more the extreme tankiness of the cave troll and the predictability of their attacks. Their magic defence is already very low, but I will reduce their physical defence/dodge chance.

Since you've already called out my usual excuse of lack of player abilities... let me suggest a different (but related) one: lack of creature abilities (!). As several players have mentioned before, many monsters do quite predictable damage. This is especially true of melee monsters like the cave troll and the giant. I'll add a few new attacks for them as part of the next update which should help. This will also allow me to reduce the tankiness of these monsters further and make fights more interesting.

With that in mind, please do mention any other monsters which are problematic and I'll take a look at how they can be adjusted as well.
Funny that you mentioned that, I was talking to Chaosweaver about monsters having some very strong abilities/skills but before they cast it, they do some kind of shout out (turn red, growl, yell, stuff like that) indicating that he will use a very strong skill, and as a reaction, you could cast deflect (magic shield, heal up, things like that) that would partially block the skill)
That would probably make the battles more dynamic and skill required.

I can`t really think of many creatures that we don`t hunt.
We could use some more giants, that would help players team hunt, look for rares and make level 50 characters usable again.



Some kind of frontal cleave or ground smash would be good.

For example Giant turns red for 2 seconds preparing a strong attack hitting the 3 sqm in front of him (he becomes vulnerable- defense drops in that time)

If the player is paying attention they can dodge the attack and avoid large damage.
Varlom
Tester
Posts: 34
Joined: January 27, 2009, 05:02:48 PM
Character: Varlom

March 14, 2017, 05:53:54 PM

I guess some additional skills for strongest monsters would be nice.

For example throwing stones for Trolls.
Critical strikes for Hill giants.
Slow effect for Archenaids etc
Lans
Tester
Posts: 40
Joined: June 18, 2013, 07:55:22 AM
Character: Lans

March 15, 2017, 02:11:58 AM

Varlom wrote:I guess some additional skills for strongest monsters would be nice.

For example throwing stones for Trolls.
Critical strikes for Hill giants.
Slow effect for Archenaids etc
But these are all simple effects that require no player skill or maneuvering.

The idea was skills that require you to dodge, cast certain spells to reduce or negate damage/effects.

A massive Hill Giant attack that deals AOE damage (all 8 sqm around him) where you could simply side step, while the creature is charging this attack, his defenses are reduced.
Things that make the combat more interesting is the main idea.

Or maybe instead of Trolls throwing a big rock, how about he targets a player, an ! mark will be on top of this targeted player and after x seconds, the Troll will throw a huge boulder, dealing high damage to the ! player and all around him. (splash effect from the giant boulder and all other shooters wouldnt have to stay all together close to each other)

That would make combat a lot more interesting and the shooters wouldnt have to simply stay in the back line just "pew pew pew".
The main damage would still be directed to the tank but the team (in this case) would also have to look for everybody`s HP.


I have plenty of ideas for skills like that for all kind of creatures.
Xurique
Tester
Posts: 71
Joined: October 28, 2012, 03:58:43 PM

March 15, 2017, 06:47:22 PM

you make it sound like u want normal monster to be like wow bosses where u need tactic to kill them :p

I like the idea BUT i dont see the point in "normal" monster having super special abilitis?

If u ask me this would be awsum for bosses and special monster rare respawns or what so ever but not on common monster

just my thoughts :)
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